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Brexit - Better, Or Worse?

Discussion in 'Business News' started by Tog Porter, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. Tog Porter

    Tog Porter Ayrshire Web Design Staff Member

    Economics professor Patrick Minford has said Britain will be four percent better off each year after Brexit despite a leaked report suggesting the UK economy will suffer as a result of leaving the European Union,

    With Brexit news constantly changing and the exit date growing closer without firm details of EU trade relations, what, if anything, will you change in your business model in order to cope with life after Brexit?
  2. Businessman

    Businessman Member

    The people behind these numbers pauchle them to suit whatever narrative they want to promote. - Apparently we've the highest employment figures since the mid 70s. Yet the number of people who haven't enough money coming in to feed and house themselves grows at a pace. And 'economists' cannot understand why wages aren't growing.

    'Leaked' report my aspidistra!

    People seem to forget that skilled folk moved and traded all over Europe and beyond long before the days of the common market, the Maastricht or the development of the EU into the union of European soviets that it eventually became. Our biggest disadvantage is that during this process our manufacturing base and much of our family silver was sold off to fund prosperity - largely in one corner of these islands.

    The politicos are bleating because it's one less trough they'll be able to get their snouts in... There's a big world out there, and we'll now be able to deal with it on our own terms.
    Tog Porter likes this.
  3. Needhelp

    Needhelp Member

    I have a simple view on this issue:-

    - The EU countries need us as much as we need them - there will be some form of trade deal
    - I dismiss the worst numbers from reports which suggest "we could be up xyz%" or "we could be down xzy%. I could win the lottery tomorrow but the chances are slim :)

    The UK economy will not collapse, the EU is in a mess and this looking down on the UK from a position of strength is comedy gold. The EU is fighting to save the EU project, the UK is/was a net contributor and a powerful member. If the UK can leave then any other member could also decide to leave - hence the reason why they are trying to make an example of the UK.
  4. Tog Porter

    Tog Porter Ayrshire Web Design Staff Member

    Unfortunately it seems as if our government has taken the bait on the EU hook and is now prepared to give away even more of our hard earned money, until well after we have left the EU. I would love to play poker with Theresa May. I think I would stand a very good chance of winning some big pots with a good bluff bet :D

    This reminds me a little of when our Government gave away a fortune in concessions to USA in exchange for technique advice and assistance when we first extracted our oil in the early seventies. :rolleyes:
    Businessman likes this.
  5. MarkB

    MarkB Administrator Staff Member

    Tory party infighting and the disasterous decision to call the election is impacting the UK's position in Brexit negotiations - as well as the suicidal strategy from the Labour Party to force the government to reveal its negotiating strategy to the world! When you are playing poker and trying to get the best deal you dont lay your hand of cards face up for the rest of the world to see!

    I am 60/40 that Brexit will actually go through and we leave the EU - the politicians on all sides talk the talk in public but seem to think they know better than the public. In the world of business the EU has added more red tape than the vast majority of UK governments put together and it is only going to get worse. The UK has always been a thorn in the side of the EU, refusing to take the Euro and, under Margaret Thatcher, fighting for a rebate to reduce our net contribution to the pot. While much of this was given back by Tony Blair, the UK and the rest of the EU have always had a rather uneasy relationship. Could we really make a worse mess of trading on our own than the EU have? Dont forget that the EU trade deal with Canada took more than 10 years to agree.
  6. Scott Kinnear

    Scott Kinnear Super Moderator Staff Member

    Brexit - If there was a vote tomorrow to cancel the whole thing, I would vote to cancel it, I voted for Brexit, but the people who are overseeing it are defeating the purpose.

    I voted for Brexit because I am sick of these Euro-Dictators. I think our government is sleeping. why they want to continue going with current euro laws, they should have a team going over the laws highlighting the ones we will do away with. where Criminals can use legal aid to find a way out of jail when they were guilty as charged but looking for the loophole. I would be making new rules and bringing back slopping out.
    If you come to our country you better have above-board checkable employment, there would be no handouts.

    When we leave European Union, we should be telling them goodbye and your getting no 40/50 million, its for our nations not yours.

    We all have our complaints about our local councils cutting this and cutting that, why are they cutting it...? Because we are too busy giving other countries our money, Our local councils are having to make +- £20 million losses from their budgets. We have foodbanks...

    Its a disgrace and we are being run by people who don't have a clue. Theresa May is a dithering wreck, she is blagging her way through her Job as Prime Minister.

    I've no time for SNP and Nicola Sturgeon either, they have ruined Scotland, a bunch of militants who are trying to be smart, and failing. They are so focused on Independence they took their eye of the ball years ago.
    Needhelp and Businessman like this.
  7. Businessman

    Businessman Member

    I think about the only thing in that I disagree with is your perspective on the SNP and independence; they aren't interested in independence, simply replacing one parcel of rogues with another and keeping their cronies' noses in an alternative trough. - I don't mind foreign aid going to those that need it either, or for that matter good hard-working skilled folk resettling here. But what we've wound up with is a situation where every ned, thief and vagabond in the nether-regions of Europe sees us as a soft touch. Meanwhile we're funding stuffed shirts abroad by the boatload.

    Yes, our 'glorious leaders' are balsing it up - but I think it will backfire on them, and the sooner we're out the better.
    Scott Kinnear likes this.
  8. Needhelp

    Needhelp Member

    This is what politicians do, they grind people down until they just give up and go back to the status quo. Look at Ireland, they held a vote the EU didnt like so the EU gave them a bucket load of money, asked them to vote again and hey presto, they changed their mind. The whole thing is a stitch up and we, the UK public, are simply pawns in their high risk games. On one side we stay strong against the EU but by all accounts the government seems keen to sell its soul out to get a US trade deal.

    One myth I would like to smash - the NHS has been the subject of creeping privatisation for many many years. Yes, free at point of delivery but so many private companies involved that it is unrecognisable to the original concept. Even the Scottish government has sold out - one example, a contract with weight watchers in a Glasgow hospital (maybe more now). The sheer volume of patients is making the NHS unviable under its current structure but I dont agree with an NHS tax - we have all paid taxes for public services for years, where does it stop, a tax for green energy (we already have one of them), a tax of fatty foods (we already have one of them) or maybe even a specific tax for rubbish collection. The problem is that with specific taxes for e.g. the NHS, those who work pay more and more while those who dont work (but could if the income difference between benefits and work was not so large) still pay nothing. If you are able to work you should contribute, if you cant then that is exactly why the NHS is here.

    The cash cow which is the working British public is starting to run dry.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
    Scott Kinnear and Businessman like this.
  9. Businessman

    Businessman Member

    ...As indeed has almost-all public service Needhelp. It's one thing buying goods and 'out-of-scope' services from specialist suppliers. Quite another to deliberately abdicate responsibility for core functions that could and should be performed in-house at a primary level. and you cite a good example.

    It's a simple fact that the end-cost of goods and services provided on a commercial basis must include the overhead of a profit which is then diverted back to the owners of that commercial entity. And for the avoidance of doubt, by that I mean a profit over and above the cost of relevant labour and materials. The purpose of public service, in contrast, should be to provide essential services, with economies of scale, on a national basis to agreed standards and specifications, wholly in the interests of the owners of the nation - i.e. the citizens of that nation. Essential services being those which are absolutely necessary to drive and maintain a fair and civilised society

    There is no weight whatsoever in the argument that commercial companies can better-achieve economies of scale nor that they can eliminate corruption and mismanagement. Quite the opposite in fact, they are more likely to incubate it, as many will tell you to your face "they're in it to 'make' money" - or more accurately, extract money from the system.

    That is not to say everything needs to be driven in-house. But clearly, when (for example) a works has a canteen for the purpose of meeting the needs of its workers, the works ought to run it! There is no justification for the jail vans (as another example) belonging to any other entity than the prison service and/or police. Or the jails themselves for that matter!

    Invariably, these huge monstrosities are ultimately owned by the well-heeled and well connected. They are then about diverting (redistributing) the wealth and resources of the nation into the pockets of people who make, do or produce absolutely nothing of any use or worth whatsoever; they merely play and gamble with digits on a balance sheet... This is why public services are simultaneously collapsing and failing ( never mind what the pauchled statistics and spin of politicians say) and costing more and more each day; service is not being provided because the money we've paid just isn't being applied for that purpose.

    Weightwatchers... In a hospital? An absolutely non-credible quack-diet promoter being paid for by the public purse. To me that's plain, simple corruption writ large. What happened to legitimate clinicians? - I suspect they don't line the pockets of the cronies!

    We are approaching an end-game here... The collapse of Carillion was just the first creak on the stairs.
  10. Needhelp

    Needhelp Member

  11. Scott Kinnear

    Scott Kinnear Super Moderator Staff Member

    Lots of great points here, I think we should Fire the current squad dealing with Brexit, and we can all work together to do it and do it well ;):)
    Needhelp likes this.
  12. Needhelp

    Needhelp Member

    Oh yes I agree lol In all honesty we could nt make any worse a job than the current bunch ;)

    There is a lot of speculation that the UK could walk away because of the massive potential penalties the EU would look to introduce as well as continued free movement - which for many was the straw that broke the camels back. Legally the UK is not obliged to pay make anything , morally they agreed to the latest budget which runs up to 2020 I think. Then again morals have not always been a strong point of the EU!
    Businessman likes this.
  13. Scott Kinnear

    Scott Kinnear Super Moderator Staff Member

    As far as I am concerned, it is a simple brexit, we are leaving the EU, and yes we will shut the door on the way out. end off.

    next day we make our own rules. and if you want to work with us, live with us, visit us, fine, but you go with our conditions, not the EU's.

    Make Britain Great Britain again, No foodbanks, the best healthcare NHS.

    Right lads lets go do this ;):D
    selfemployed and Businessman like this.
  14. Businessman

    Businessman Member

    There have been a lot of scare tactics used on the 'free movement' thing... Have passport will travel was the way long before the EU existed! I grew up in Springburn, one of my mate's mums was French, another's dad was Polish. - Italians were ten-a-penny, there were some Greeks across the road. My uncle and his business partners hailed from Hong Kong. My girlfriend's mum was from Shanghai, her dad was from Hong Kong, her Grandad (an English teacher in HK) came here in the 1930s to do his degree at Glasgow Uni! - Personally I've worked in America, Canada, France, Korea, Hong Kong, Germany ( East Germany even!), Sweden, Denmark, Italy, Spain...

    What has "free movement" achieved that wasn't happening before?
  15. MarkB

    MarkB Administrator Staff Member

    Personally I dont see an issue with the system we use for the rest or the world when visiting the UK? Then everyone is assessed under the same rules and regulations?

    I understand the EU want free movement so Europe is seen as the "United states of Europe" but when we have very different economies across member states, very different levels of public services and employment opportunities this doesnt quite fit - there is not a one size fits all answer, unfortunately.
  16. Scott Kinnear

    Scott Kinnear Super Moderator Staff Member

    I have nothing against people from whatever country coming to work, It is the people coming to abuse the system. coming to get free dole money. I have worked more than I've not, so I have put in to the system. so if I have a bit of an unlucky run with work, I feel entitled to get that jobseekers benefit. The last time I was unemployed, I was proactive in looking for work, I was also doing voluntary work at a charity to give back. (Can you believe that the woman I had to go and get signed on with, wanted to sanction my benefit because the hours I was doing the voluntary work they said I wasn't looking for work...:( any excuse to stop someones money, I told her if she went down that road she would end up looking stupid. In fact there was the opportunity to have a look for Jobs, because I was assisting running Digital Workshops for Shelter Scotland in Dundee, So I was showing people who had no skills on computers how to do different things, Create an email account, office applications, how to search for jobs or courses. The benefits worker soon backed down).

    anyway, no issues with folk who want to come and do well and contribute to our economy :)
    Businessman likes this.